Lion’s Roar’s Pamela Ayo Yetunde talks to Buddhist documentary movie author Anne Seidlitz about PBS’ Turning into Frederick Douglass, which tells the story of one of the acknowledged figures in U.S. Black Historical past.
One of many biggest recognized and acknowledged figures in U.S. Black Historical past is abolitionist and orator Frederick Douglass (1818 –1895). Once I discovered {that a} Buddhist practitioner, Anne Seidlitz, wrote the script for the 2022 PBS documentary Turning into Frederick Douglass, I needed to watch it to see how a Buddhist may write about Douglass. After watching the documentary, I used to be so impressed that I needed to ask for a possibility to fulfill Seidlitz. The interview under demonstrates her wide-ranging experience in African American tradition, in addition to American cultural and social historical past.
Anne Seidlitz is an award-winning script, therapy, and narration author for documentaries. Her work has been broadly broadcast on networks comparable to PBS and HBO. Seidlitz is at present writing a guide concerning the jazz pianist Hampton Hawes, and fashionable jazz mid-century.
—Pamela Ayo Yetunde
Pamela Ayo Yetunde: What does being a Buddhist or a Buddhist practitioner should do together with your alternative to put in writing the script for Turning into Frederick Douglass?
Anne Seidlitz. Photograph by Metin Oner.
Anne Seidlitz: Properly, I didn’t really select to put in writing the script! I used to be chosen by the director and producer, based mostly on my background of writing movies and different issues about Black historical past and tradition. However I might say writing a script on Frederick Douglass was actually the consideration of a lifetime, given his stature in Black historical past and political thought. It’s truthful to say that he was the primary nationally — and likewise internationally — acknowledged Black chief in America’s historical past. And as I used to be writing the script it occurred to me that I couldn’t consider anybody amongst subsequent Black leaders or activists who didn’t maintain Douglass within the highest regard. So it was an honor, but additionally a problem, as you need to do your greatest if you’re coping with somebody this necessary, and so unimpeachable in his views and conduct and life. So I attempted to drag out all of the stops, by way of making an attempt to current the truest image of Douglass attainable.
I actually do assume Frederick Douglass was some form of woke up being who got here right here to do precisely what he did.
So far as being a Buddhist and dealing on this movie, I might say there actually wasn’t something about Douglass’ life or his thought that may be seen as inconsistent with Buddhist concepts. So far as I might inform and lots of agree — he was a selfless, fearless, assured, dignified, insightful, and a deeply caring individual — all these issues which are so central to Buddhist beliefs. In order a human being I feel he resonated with me as somebody who was exemplary in some ways. I imply, I all the time knew about Douglass, at the same time as a toddler, and so he already occupied a spot of respect and admiration in my thoughts. However as I wrote the script he solely grew in stature in my thoughts. I actually do assume he was some form of woke up being who got here right here to do precisely what he did, which was to assist free 3 million individuals held in bondage on this nation, after which set their lives and the lives of their descendants on a greater path — though we nonetheless have a protracted approach to go in fulfilling that promise.
Douglass in his lifetime additionally did greater than play a central position in emancipating the enslaved, he additionally reworked the remainder of America’s — or a lot of its — desirous about who Black individuals have been in main methods. Which he did as an orator, a author, and a public determine. Simply the picture of Douglass in pictures was a significant corrective (aside from presidents, he was essentially the most photographed American within the 19th century, after Mark Twain.) Douglass’ was completely as well-known throughout his lifetime as Martin Luther King Jr. is in ours. So I feel from a Buddhist perspective, Douglass was somebody who by means of his exercise on the planet helped alleviate the struggling of thousands and thousands of individuals, which places him fully consistent with the mahayana ultimate of “Could I free all beings.”
What influence did your Buddhist id or Buddhist apply have on how you selected to put in writing the script?
Properly, that’s an attention-grabbing query. I don’t assume I actually introduced something totally different to the writing of this script than different issues I’ve written, aside from as I stated actually making an attempt to do the very best I might (which isn’t to say I don’t try this with different initiatives). However that being stated, each author brings their very own “biases” to the topic at hand by way of what they select to emphasise. In order a Buddhist I feel I used to be actually excited by how Frederick Douglass helped individuals, the constructive impacts he had on the bigger society, and his basic philosophy of life. And likewise the best way his thoughts labored. Whereas somebody extra excited by politics or the historical past of slavery, for instance, may emphasize these topics extra.
As a Buddhist I feel I used to be involved with getting throughout the center of his goodness as an individual, and the great that he did on the planet, and all these qualities talked about earlier than. In different phrases, to place throughout that this actually distinctive individual lived in America, who occurred to be Black, and that he encapsulated in a single individual remarkably excessive ranges of sanity, intelligence, morality, and dedication. And that Douglass, this one that was born enslaved, had an exceptionally correct view of what America actually is, and insisted that we be devoted to it — that it’s supposed to be a spot the place freedom, equality, and the rights of each individual to pursue happiness exists. So all these conceptions about America that Douglass held, are nothing that I might argue about, being a Buddhist.
With Douglass, his accomplishments have been so huge and seismic — I imply he actually modified the course of American historical past, and in some ways was “an individual for the ages” — and his personal life was so dramatic and at instances heart-wrenching, that as a author I felt my job was to tie all that collectively right into a cohesive and dramatic narrative, and guarantee that individuals actually bought who he was, and what his lasting significance continues to be.
There are various pictures used on this documentary. Are you able to establish one which influenced what you wrote and what did you determine to put in writing upon viewing it?
Frederick Douglass
I feel the {photograph} that was actually emblazoned in my thoughts as I wrote — and even earlier than really, as I had a postcard of it on my mantle a number of years in the past — was the one taken in 1850 when he was 32. The {photograph} — I feel it was really a daguerreotype — conveys so many feelings without delay, and conveys such energy. There’s this smoldering anger, but additionally disappointment. And feeling of defiance and indignation but additionally immense dignity. It’s important to keep in mind that individuals had totally different concepts about pictures then, which was a brand new medium: they really thought {that a} {photograph} might include one thing of an individual’s soul. So that you see that right here — the image radiates an intense sense of presence and directness. He virtually appears to be making a requirement on the viewer, like “what are you doing about it?”
Curiously, the {photograph} was dated someday in 1850, which was the yr the Fugitive Slave Act was handed in Congress — which was most likely the most important setback for the anti-slavery motion in many years. As described within the documentary, the Fugitive Slave Act gave bizarre residents in addition to federal marshals the facility to arrest any Black individual they even suspected of being an escaped slave. So all of a sudden everybody was in danger all around the nation. This was a turning level for Douglass, because it made him much more militant, and satisfied him unequivocally that slavery wouldn’t finish with out violence, most likely within the type of battle. (Douglass famously predicted the Civil Struggle). And regardless that he referred to as himself a “peace man”, at round this time he publicly said that it will be justifiable for somebody to kill anybody trying to arrest a Black individual in a free state — that that may quash the Act. So this {photograph} captures him at a really indignant time.
Douglass created himself and his path — in his case the trail to freedom.
It’s additionally necessary to recollect in any of the pictures of Douglass, that photographs of Black males on the time weren’t imagined to appear like this in any respect — that Black individuals have been completely not supposed to precise rage or indignation in public. I imply, in lots of elements of the nation on the time — and this was true nicely into the 20th century — Black individuals weren’t even imagined to look white individuals within the eye. So right here you may have this highly effective Black man trying everybody within the eye with this intense expression of anger and rage and defiance and energy, in addition to self-possession. In order that in itself was a message and a problem to America.
What you wrote concerning the 1850 Fugitive Slave Act helped me perceive the lengthy historical past of vigilantism within the U.S. otherwise. I had not made the connection between the 1850 Fugitive Slave Act and the way the U.S. authorities and a few state governments have lately promised to reward civilians for reporting their well being care colleagues on First Modification, non secular train rights, to the U.S. authorities and the way Texas, for instance, tried to empower Texans to report girls to the U.S. authorities for searching for an abortion. How does writing about Frederick Douglass make it easier to perceive the struggling of surveillance and incrimination?
That is moving into considerably difficult territory. However first I ought to say that the scholar Gloria J. Browne-Marshall’s description of the Fugitive Slave Act within the movie was not scripted by me — these have been her personal very eloquent phrases. I did write concerning the Fugitive Slave Act within the script in fact, and just about hit on the identical factors, however Gloria prolonged it and made it extremely clear and comprehensible, I believed. At any fee, I’m glad that that side of the movie expanded your perception into one thing taking place at the moment, however I feel that connecting an Act of Congress in 1850 that completely impacted enslaved and free Black individuals on this nation with among the present points round freedom of speech, non secular rights, and abortion is difficult.
That is form of an age-old argument — whether or not a level of parity exists between the struggling of 1 group and the struggling of one other. In each Holocaust research and Black research areas, for instance, this topic has been mentioned broadly — “Wasn’t slavery just like the Holocaust, and wasn’t the Holocaust like slavery?” Properly, the place individuals have for essentially the most half landed is that it’s an affront to every group to counsel that there’s parity — that the circumstances across the struggling of 1 group should stay particular to that group and their descendants. Does that make sense?
For instance if somebody stated to the descendant of a Black one that was arrested below the Fugitive Slave Act in 1850, “My brother is a physician in Texas and he was arrested for giving an abortion, isn’t that the identical as your great-great-great grandfather being arrested and despatched again to Georgia?” The reply must be “no”, out of respect for all Black Individuals and what they went by means of.
What can Buddhist practitioners find out about liberation from Frederick Douglass’s life?
Properly, I feel one of many issues we are able to all study from Frederick Douglass’ life is that every of us has the facility to create our personal lives at each second, out of the bottom of what Buddhists I suppose may name vacancy. Which is what Douglass did. That the world just isn’t as restricted as we would assume — in actual fact when you take a look at Douglass’s instance there are not any limits. Notably as a toddler, he was bereft of most of the issues we take with no consideration — some primary diploma of safety, love, sense of your home on the planet, recognition that you’re “somebody.” That was taken away from him at age six, and he had not one of the ordinary mirrors to mirror again to you that you’re somebody of worth, and even that you’re “any person” in any respect. In reality, the world was telling him he was “no one”, and that he had no worth in anyway. However Douglass referred to as on these exceptional internal sources even at a really early age, and did it himself — he created himself and his path — in his case the trail to freedom.
At age six, Douglass noticed fairly clearly that his personal scenario and that of all of the enslaved individuals round him was terribly unsuitable, and he vowed even that he would do one thing. And virtually miraculously, he ended up fulfilling that early promise he had made — to free himself and his individuals. So I feel that his instance is pretty in step with what Buddhist lecturers may inform us repeatedly, that “it’s as much as us.” And if liberation is to be achieved now we have to do it ourselves by means of our personal efforts. After all now we have lecturers and teachings to point out us the best way, however finally it’s as much as us. Frederick Douglass did have mentors and examples (and was additionally extremely well-read, regardless that he by no means stepped foot in a schoolroom) however he was actually somebody who created himself out of skinny air, and on high of that within the face of large obstacles. Beginning with “nothing” — externally no less than — and changing into one of many biggest figures in American historical past, and, so far as I might inform, a fully-evolved human being.